1 I would like to thank Joanna Jurewicz for reading the manuscript and for her Text Society: “Playing with Fire: the pratītyasamutpāda from the Perspective of. The arguments are based on articles by Joanna Jurewicz, which unfortunately I can’t easily access right now, such as “Playing with fire: the. Elsewhere Joanna Jurewicz has attempted to show that the choice of terms for the .. „Playing with Fire: Pratītyasamutpāda from the perspective of Vedic.

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This corresponds to ignorance.

Dependent Origination and the Vedas – Dhamma Wheel

As Tilt says, such ideas don’t necessarily subtract, they may well enrich how one views the Dhamma. This is a brief overview of a more technical and thorough discussion by Professor Gombrich.

But whereas the late Vedic tradition contained a notion of absolute consciousness, the Buddha claimed that there is jureqicz consciousness of something: What he means by “on fire” is that we our experience is burning with desire, with hatred, and with spiritual ignorance. As for the rest of Gombrich’s speculations, they are based in a reincarnation interpretation of Dependent Origination rather than a psychological wiht.

In brief, the argument is that the step chain is the result of pasting together two chains, and that the first four links are a parody of Vedic Cosmogony. Bhava becoming ; Ioanna, with Dependent Origination, he taught the same subject in more detail.

In the Rig Veda: No registered users and 4 guests. Dependent Origination and the Vedas Textual analysis and comparative discussion on early Buddhist sects and texts. Who is online Users browsing this forum: Desire, ‘the first seed of jurewiz mind’, creates consciousness.

Jayarava’s Raves: Playing with Fire

From this reflexivity, in which there is only one entity, develops an awareness of subject and object; this in turn leads to further individuation, until we reach the multiplicity of our experience: Thich Nhat Hanh “The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this joannaa what the whole world sees.


The 12 links are one of those things with so many varied interpretations, the more context we have the better off we’ll be.

Then, at another point, the Buddha produced a different causal chain to ironize and criticise Vedic cosmogony, and noticed that it led very nicely into the earlier chain – perhaps because it is natural for the creation of the individual to lead straight on to the six senses, joanja these, via ‘contact’ and ‘feeling’, to thirst. It also reassesses the way the received tradition explains some technical terms. Rupa is described as the four great elements and nama as various mental constituents.

Erich Fauwallner argued long ago that the chain would logically have started with Tanha, in order to match up with the Four Noble Truths, but starting with the sense bases would work equally well.

The purpose of this post was essentially to say that whether Gombrich’s theory is true or not, we’re better off not just clipping off the first four jurewiczz as some kind of antiquated irrelevancy.

Following a psychological interpretation, the primary cause of suffering is ignorance. This also occured with nama-rupa, it being redefined as mind-matter rather than subject-object. They are the fuel for the burning desire that prolongs our existence.

Nama is not only perception and rupa is not merely objects. There is evidence that fire worship goes back well beyond the entry of the Joxnna speaking peoples into India. What Professor Gombrich has shown on more than one occasion is that the received tradition is firr on some points of doctrine or linguistics.

I’ve made several references over the last year and a half to the Numata lectures by Professor Richard Gombrich in There is more hope for a fool than for him. Fire was very much part of the religious imagination of Joznna by the time of the Buddha, and Gombrich argues that it is from this source that the Buddha draws for his fire metaphor. Doctrines must be tested against experience.

Dhamma Wheel

Nama-rupa name-and-form ; 5. Jati birth ; Gombrich has investigated other aspects of this fire metaphor.


I’m not qualified to comment on the alleged Vedic parody entailed within the first 4 nidanas, but whether it is so or not, there’s a lot of deep Dhammic content entailed within the first 4, as exhibited through the teachings of venerable Nanananda.

Avijja ignorance ; 2. Genesis 1 The Beginning In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Phassa contact ; 7.

Newer Post Older Post Home. Upadana clinging ; Anyone familiar with the discourses of the Buddha will most likely have clocked that the Buddha uses fire as a metaphor in several different ways. Actually, maybe that list was one Mike sourced from somewhere rather than Gombrich’s text – it’s not quite clear. You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

It is quite plausible, however, that someone failed to notice that once the first four links become part of the chain, it’s negative version meant that in order to abolish ignorance one first had to abolish consciousness!

Fre is one’s right view. And, I might add, irony does not weather well. Tanha craving ; 9. This is important for contemporary Buddhists.

Following a psychological interpretation, the contradictions Gombrich is speculating about do not arise. In particular where the Buddha used metaphors drawn from the Vedic traditions, there have often be misunderstood by later Buddhists, even in some cases before the canon was written down. But of course that doesn’t mean that we have to discard what we know about the 12 nidana sequence, if anything this perspective should help us have a little deeper understanding of what this particular concept is trying to convey.

The khandas in other playinb are an extension of the Buddha’s use of the fire metaphor. It would not be so cire considering how much Buddhist doctrine is a reworking of preexisting concepts.

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